Non-detergent oil in transmission/clutch ????

[Alberta Mike]

I just noticed in my owner's manual for my Road Toad that they recommend straight 30W non-detergent motor oil in the transmission (and clutch too I guess). I have lots of good-quality regular (detergent) motor oil here which is straight 40W. Can it be used and can I expect as good results with it? I'm not trying to save a few dollars, but if it will work just as well, why not use it?

Meanwhile, what is the reason for recommending non-detergent oil as opposed to regular motor oil which has those detergents in the formula?

[hodakamax]

The transmission oil needs to be rated as such. SG motor oil will work for meshing gears and wet clutches as will specific transmission oil. Oil designed for automobile engines can cause damage to gear faces and cause slipping clutches. Non-detergent oils are things of the past or at least hard to find. I personally use Mobil 1 Racing 4T in all my motorcycles, two-stroke or four if they have meshing gears and/or wet clutches. It is currently rated SN, SM, SL, SJ which covers SH, SG, and CF. Look for SG on the label. Important! The guys will have some transmission only favorites but I like the SG rated oils for engines that share wet clutch and gear lubricant. Hope this helps!

Max

[thrownchain]

I use Yamaha oil blended for 2 stroke bikes in the tranny, and 2r or 2s for premix.

[Bullfrog]

Detergent type oils are designed to clean deposits off surfaces AND keep the deposits in suspension - so the oil filter can remove them. Since there is no oil filter system for the transmission/clutch system on a Hodie, the deposits (and clutch wear particles) tend to be held in suspension indefinitely with detergent oil. With non-detergent oil, those deposits tend to settle out better and don't get randomly circulated through the bushings and bearings.

There is strong agreement among experienced Hodaka owners, racers and tuners that using a modern transmission oil designed for use with wet clutches is a better idea than the half century old recommendation to use 30wt non-detergent motor coil for the transmission. 70 to 85wt gear oil designed for use with wet clutches is perfect for the Hodie transmissions - the "wt" rating system for gear oil is not the same as used for motor oil.
Ed

[Hydraulic Jack]

The manual, and the machine, were created in a different era. Back in the 60's and 70's non-detergent oil was readily available and was in fact still specified for many older cars still on the road back then. So it wasn't a strange oil to find on the store shelves because there was a market for it. Non-detergent was specified because some detergent oils then coming into use had additives that would be incompatible with a wet clutch, as is still the case today. So non-detergent oil was specified in the manual. Also, motorcycle targeted gear oils for wet clutch applications were simply not to be found 40 or more years ago.

Times have changed. Motorcycles are now a major part of the market, and just about all oil companies are making some kind of motorcycle targeted product. 30W non-detergent motor oil and 75W modern gear oil are the same viscosity, and have a lot in common.

Can you use 30W non-detergent oil? Sure. That's what was intended then and it still works. Should you use it? I don't see why. A high quality modern gear oil rated for wet clutch use has more going for it than stripped down base petroleum oil. On the one hand, you don't know what is in it -- you only know what isn't in it: detergent. In a wet clutch gear oil you know that whatever is in it is compatible with a motorcycle transmission and wet clutch. Your choice.

Besides, it isn't all that easy to find a simple 30W oil of any kind much less a detergent free one.

[Bill2001]

30W non-detergent oil is the standard oil spec'd for Briggs & Stratton lawnmower engines. Readily available.

[viclioce]

I was recommended this oil by Danny Cook. Klotz Flex Drive 30. Specifically formulated for 2 Stroke dirt bike bottom ends. Grate flow too! Easy pour spout is also nice!

[Hydraulic Jack]

30W non-detergent oil is the standard oil spec'd for Briggs & Stratton lawnmower engines. Readily available.

Not to bash Briggs and Stratton, but it is a disposable engine, so the type of oil used in it isn't really important. Most owners don't even check their oil, much less add to or change oil in a Briggs.

On the other hand, I haven't put non-detergent oil in an internal combustion engine since 1974, and that engine was in a '49 Willys. I haven't spent a lot of time in mower shops lately, but I don't recall seeing non-detergent oil at the auto parts stores for a long time. But maybe I haven't been looking closely enough.

[Bill2001]

Non-detergent oil is spec'd by B&S because of the type of lubrication ststem used.

[matt glascock]

I hope you still have the '49 Willys jeep. Coolest 4-wheel vehicles ever.

[Hydraulic Jack]

Sold it in 1976. Shame on me. Only vehicle I ever owned that I sold for a profit. Ran like a top.

[Hydraulic Jack]

Non-detergent oil is spec'd by B&S because of the type of lubrication ststem used.

Splash? Can this actually make a difference?

[matt glascock]

Rats! I worked at a filling station through high school and one of the guys I worked with had a '49. We ripped all over the place on that jeep. Bullet proof. He sold it to his moron brother for $100 who then burned it to a crisp when he set his garage on fire with a welding torch. I tried to refer to him as "Ted the Torch" after that but all I could get out was "Ted the Turd" or just plain "Turd". In the process, he smoked his 2 Can-Ams and a really sweet Husky.

[JackM]

I learned to drive in my dad's '49 Willys. It had a rag top and was a cold ride in the winter. That was 57 yrs ago. My how time flies.

[Alberta Mike]

Hey, I got a Jeep .... not a Willys but a distant relative. Also got some old tractors, lots of those things up here but nobody's got a TOAD.

[matt glascock]

From when machines were machines. No plastic, no computers, no esoteric little doodads that do God knows what. Nice fleet, Mike! That Toad will feel right at home. Yep, the Rag top Willys was cold in the winter, but that's why we invented coats and gloves. Great times were had.

[hodakamax]

Just have to tell you that the first ever machine I drove as a child was the Farmall pictured. Dad would let me idle around for hours in low gear. I couldn't even reach the pedals. To stop I'd push the plunger stop button. He did keep an eye on me and I was hooked on motor driven devices forevermore.

Max

[Bill2001]

My fave four-wheeler here is a Yanmar 3-cyl diesel.

B&S splash lube, no oil pump, no filter. They want debris to settle as sludge and not remain suspended, so the detergent additive is not needed.

[Alberta Mike]

Those are neat little tractors, the offset driver position makes things more visible which is good for a youngster. Those little IHC Farmall switches are still available, they make them in China now of course, along with most other replacement parts for the old stuff. More than once I've shut the tractor down by hitting that darned switch unintentionally.