Ace 90/100 frames and fenders

[Camman]

Hello Fellow Hodaka fans. I'm working on a 1968 Ace 100 (I think). The wheels are 17", the forks are Ace 100, as is the one piece exhaust pipe. The engine is Ace 100 verified by the cylinder cc and manufacture number, as well as the left side magneto cover. The front fender is also Ace 100. However...the frame is Ace 90 verified by the manufacture number, seat mounting bracket and the swing arm. So one can deduce that Hodaka continued to use the 90 frame with the new Ace 100's during the model transition period which makes good business sense (and I really doubt a previous owner swapped out all those parts). Since this was most likely the case, did the early Ace 100's with 90 frames first have a narrow one piece rear fender (as opposed to the two piece fender and hoop on the 90) before a wider fender was used? I bought a wider 100 fender but it looks to large for the 17" wheels. I'm not that particular and the wider fender will work fine but I am mostly curious how the manufacturing transitions periods transpired (actually I am picky, I admit it). Any comments welcome.

[Bullfrog]

That question involves more detail than I can answer.

Ed

[Camman]

Sorry Ed, I got bored while watching the Olympics opening ceremony and over thought the question. But I am disappointed that you won't answer.

[Bullfrog]

Its not that I won't answer . . . its that I don't know the answer.

Ed

[Dale]

Curious here. You say that your bike has the narrow, one piece rear fender? With a horizontal rear mud flap (or mounting holes at the back end for it)? If so, and if I have this right, this would be an early Ace 90 rear fender as they went to the longer 2 piece rear fender with the mounting stay. It would make no sense that the early Ace 100 would have come out with an early Ace 90 rear fender.

And... since your frame number verifies that it was an Ace 90, I am "guessing" that someone did install an Ace 100 motor into an Ace 90 frame. Maybe made one bike out of two and ended up with Ace 100 forks and pipe as well?

Just thinking out loud...
Dale

[Bruce Young]

Hello, I would to say that Dale,s explaination makes most since, I would like to know if you can measure the distance between frame tubes where the fender would be mounted as well as some sort of measurement from the mounting bolts at the front of where the fender is mounted and the mounting bolts at the top, where the fender might be mounted as well. I know is will be a rough measurement without a fender, but it will still help. also a measurement between the swing arm tubes. We might like to see what the length of the swing arm is as well. #With these measurements we might be better be able to help.

Bruce Young Hodakaparts.com IDAHO

[JayLael]

I'm sure allot of experts on here might know more about this subject, but I thought I might throw another monkey wrench into this discussion, just for the fun of it. I recently came into posession of what I was told was a 1968 Ace 90 frame and swing arm. I was also told that the very last Ace 9os were sold at the same time as the Ace 100 was introduced as a fledgeling model. The 1968 Ace 90 frame and swingarm are very interesting to me as I didn't know this model existed. It has a WAY longer swingarm than the regular Ace 90, and has two alternate locations to install the back wheel! I wonder if the bike in question is one of these rare and strange bikes?

[admin]

Jay I had not heard of this before. I have all the modification changes done to all the early bikes. What is your frame number please ?? Is it a plate riveted to the frame above the left shock or a stamped # into that same gusset above the left shock?
To the best of my knowledge the Ace 90's were done being manufactured as of August of 67'
Interesting...
Thank you
Paul

[JayLael]

I will have to ghet the frame down from the rafters and write it down. I am pretty sure it is on the left shock plate area. Will get back to you, with photo proof.

[Bruce Young]

Jay, hello again, this is Bruce Young, while you are geting frame down from rafters, this is a good time to make measurements as I suggested to go along with the pictures you post.

All this will help in the correct identification of these frames and swingarms.. We too are enterested in helping you find out what you have. Hodaka made a lot of subtle changes and all the info that comes to lite helps us all. One should, as Dale said keep in mind that riders and owners themselves made changes and those too need to be sorted out. Thanks for your help, Bruce Hodakaparts.com IDAHO

[admin]

Thanks Jay !! I do not need photo proof your word is golden.
Paul

[JayLael]

My first time posting a photo. This is the so called 1968 Ace 90. Note the stock Ace 90 swingarm in the photo.

[admin]

Jay that bike was made in November of 1966. I think it might just be a modified bike that someone did on their own. Someone could have just swapped out swingarms. Such as a longer swingarm from a B+ would mount right up to that frame. This would make sense.
Great job on the photos!!
I hope this helps
Thanks
Paul

[rlkarren]

Hmm.. that's the same swing arm, (the mounted one), on my Ace 90 No A13298. Apparently not far down the assembly line from yours.

[Dale]

Well, me too. Frame A11010. I had assumed that mine had been changed out for the longer B+ style. I am going to stay with that assumption as I am guessing that it was a popular modification.
Dale

[rlkarren]

this swing arm idea got me intrigued... I grabbed my manual.. published 1967, with Ace100 Supplement. I looked at the change log and noticed that in Jan 1966, beginning with frame #A06533 there were many changes, called "C" Modifications. Among all those changes was a swing arm change. No further details, just that the swing arm was included in the "C" Modification. This is the last swing arm change that was logged, (at least according to my manual).

Looking through the manual, every photo of the swing arm, including the exploded view, shows the long swing arm with two mounts. In my opinion, this is enough to convince me that the long swing arm was the "C" Modification in Jan 1966.

Back to the original poster...

I think it is more likely a previous owner swapped parts on you. The Ace 100 came with 17" front and rear wheels and the wider one piece rear fender. Again... at least according to my manual.

Not trying to start a flame, just sharing what I found.

Roger

[Dale]

Starting with #A06533? That is funny. I had checked the swingarm on my "extra" Ace 90 frame and it had the shorter swingarm. That frame number is A06520. So your theory fits at least for this case.

[Camman]

Here is a picture of the Ace 90 frame that started this discussion. All other parts on the bike are Ace 100. Could be a swap out of parts as suggested. The rear fender loop was bent upward so I bent it back to the flat position. There was no rear fender on the bike when I bought it. The wider fender fits and looks fine. The frame has been cut out for larger shocks at some point in it's lifetime.

[michael_perrett]

Am I getting this correctly? The unusual swingarms shown are actually factory production swingarms, not aftermarket or home built?
Mike Perrett

[Dale]

Yes Mike, I believe that is correct. The swingarm on these Ace 90's appear to be the same as the Model 92 Ace 100's. The schematics of the Model 92 show them.

[Bruce Young]

Hello Hodaka World; I still would like to ask for some sort of measurement be made on these swing arms in question. #1 width of mount in the front. #2 length between the front mount brkt from bolt hole to last rear slotted axle mtg, very front of slotted brkt. #3 width of the swingarm at that rear axle mtg, measure between flat slotted unit not the arm tubes.

As I said before picture are fantastic, but in this issue measurement would of great help.
I also noted statement about bent up rear fender loop. I note on my frames 90s and 100 two diff rear fender loops, bent up and not bent up. enteresting. Also enteresting is the horn and coil mounting location tabs. Also some frames are stamped in back and some have little tages riveted to the frame. Going back to swing arms, I have four diff. types, for eather ACE 90 or ACE 100 each a little bit diff from the others. The entertainment mounts. Lets solve this mystery. Bruce Hodakaparts.com

[Bruce Young]

Hello, swing arm guys, over nite I made some measurements to the swing arms I had that where all a little diff in manf. So here goes. Might help answer some questions. I know some of you already know this info, but there are newbes out there that still ask questions and we want them to continue, its up to use ol folks to help them make their Hodaka experience and fun as possible.
#! width at mount bolt end 6" all three
#2 length between mount bolt and shock mtg hole; #13" all three
#3 length between mount bolt and front of axle slot #two where 15 1/2" and one was only 13 1/2" , I assume the longer ones where for 100,s and the short one was for 90,s.
#4 note little diff in two 100 swing arms, one had only one slot cut in it for axle, but the other one had one slot for axle and another slot cut for what ever, in front of axle slot.

Now to answer what lengths some riders went to, to get extra length in swing are, I have one that is for ACE 100 which had a 1" extension welded into swing arm to extend the rear axle slot location to 17".

As you can see all swing arms interchange in those years, but it depended on what length you wanted in the end for use of the bike. I can see when you made those types of changes you also had to do something with the fender to make the fender curve match the tire used.

Hope this helps answer some questions, or it might create more. But it all fun. Bruce Young
Hodakaparts.com IDAHO