Lost Key

[sparkyj]

Hi guys,
I'm new here and have just adopted a 69 Hodaka Ace 100.
No key. I see there is a stamp on the ignition switch. Can this identify a proper key?
Are there any key alternatives you all have had luck with?

Also wondering if there are any inexpensive battery alternatives or special considerations.

Would love to get my hands on a service manual at some point.

thanks!

[Bill2001]

Simply Hodaka has most everything.
Keys are available by key number, stamped on the key itself or the backside of the keyswitch.
Battery is a 6v slosh batt of the right size.
Manuals are available from SH, new and maybe used.

Pics. We need pics of the bike.

[olddogs]

I believe all the Ace 100s used a generic key. One key starts em all. No key needed if you just want to test for spark. Just unplug the wiring harness from the ignition switch to the magneto. The black and blue wires to the coil are the only ones necessary to run it.

You wont have lights, and this also bypasses the battery, but it will tell you if you have spark needed to get it going. Make sure its in neutral and be prepared to either use the choke or pull the plug cap off to kill the engine if you plan on running it. If on a budget, just wire in a simple kill switch and have fun riding around the house.

If its new to you and you have no history with it, a carb cleaning and fuel system cleansing will probably be in order before you do anything else.

[viclioce]

I found the following key at my local locksmith and he was able to cut it to work with the switches on my Road Toads. It's a generic key but I think I paid less than $5.00 for 2 of them cut. Should be the same key for you too! It's a Y11 lock key. Victor

[sparkyj]

Thanks guys, I didn't receive your replies even after logging in. Maybe I need to adjust my settings. What a cool group. And thanks for the advice!

Re: Key, maybe I can start with a blank but it is stamped 3121 on the outer sleeve. Perhaps that is a tumbler setting (oof, this tape will self destruct in 5 seconds). if a cut is needed, how do you know how to cut?

Thanks for the magneto advice, this will get me going to see if I have a rider or a decor/garden enhancer item.
do i need to just unplug the ignition or do a jump there?

Tank sloshing next ooof..... need to repair a gooey liner job. So don't want to do it. Any tips on removing or recoating would be great. There seems to be 100 ways to do this.

Pics...will try and post some soon!

[olddogs]

No special tricks to get it running without the key. Just unplug the square plastic connector coming off the key switch assembly. Make sure the blue and black wires are making a good connection. The wires to the coil are a separate group from the ones going to the switch. No jumper wires needed.

Don't forget you still need a way to stop the engine once its running. Have this plan figured out before you fire it up. A stuck carb slide or throttle cable can cause an engine meltdown or an unplanned trip to the emergency room.

[thrownchain]

Seems to me if you have to unplug the switch to get it to run, but the motor revs out, plugging the switch back in would shut it off.

[sparkyj]

I took the ignition away from the frame. Maybe the ignition is supposed to stay grounded while kickstarting? (duh!)
There is no connector block that I can see. Maybe a spliced wire job here. And the loose blue wire near the switch was wedged to the frame, I assume touching the bolt in order to create a ground. And a curious 2 blue wire situation behind the switch.

I don't think there is any spark. Pulled the plug out an grounded it to engine while cranking to see if I could see a spark. No go.
I'm assuming because there is a ground issue. I did hold the switch to the frame but obviously it is in the OFF position with out a key.

OLDDOGS, what do I do with those blue and black wires in this situation?

While at the hardware store today I picked up a Y11 key but it appears to be too fat to fit the slot.
At least my return spring is broken on the kick starter! Joy.

[junker2k]

Just unplug the black wire from the switch, it will start and run with that wire unplugged. BUT it will need a way to stop the motor. (Kill button)
Jack

[viclioce]

The blue wire goes to a double connector on a blue wire coming from the coil & the black one goes to a double connector on the black wire coming from the coil. If you only connect those 2 wires and don't plug in the ignition switch then you should get spark because the switch won't bypass the ignition circuit with it unplugged.

If you look at this picture, #27 should be your blue & black wires which connect to the coil & #28 is the 4 wires going to your ignition.

Sorry about the key! I thought they were all the same size, at least that's what I was told. You may have to get a Hodaka key blank from Paul at Strickly Hodaka to get the right fit. Then take the blank to your locksmith with the ignition and he can file cut it to make your tumblers work with the blank! Victor

[sparkyj]

Thanks guys
OK So 2 scenarios

Leave the ignition bolted on:

!) Unplug Black wire only (preferably with a Connector back to "ground" AKA Kill Switch)

2) Disconnect all the wires from the switch "except" the Blue and Black wires
It seems like the illustration shows only 1 wire for #27

Is this correct, in a nutshell?

I posted pictures above of my wire cluster
I should look at a wiring diagram to see why the last guy double grounded that blue wire under the switch

[olddogs]

Forget the mess of wires and the switch for now. Just make sure they are all unplugged. Any of them could be run to ground by a backyard mechanic. You need to eliminate all the variables.

There should be 2 sets of wires coming up through the grommet in the case. One group goes to the switch, (the plastic block connector may have been cut off years ago). Make sure no matter where they go they are unhooked and not touching anything. The smaller bundle should only have the 2 wires that go to the coil. 1 blue and 1 black. If these are connected and you have no spark, your problem is somewhere else. Points, condenser, coil, wire connection. Let the fun begin,

I have picked up dozens of Hodakas over the years with no spark. One of the main reasons they get pushed in a corner or end up in yard sales.

[Bill2001]

On Hodaka, the Blue color-code wire is always a ground wire. Black seems to be ignition primary. And so on.
With my wiring harness I noticed so many splices, patches and odd connections that I redid a new wiring harness.

Shop manuals with schematics are available from SH.

[sparkyj]

The blue and black wire should be "connected" only to the coil?
Sorry

Including a wire diagram here

[olddogs]

Yes. It only takes the 2 to make it run, if no other problems exist with the other ignition components behind the flywheel.

[rlkarren]

Hi,

Looking at your key switch, Wiring, and your indication that this is a 1969 Ace 100, It appears that you do indeed have an early Ace 100. This means that you should be looking at the Ace 90 Wiring diagram. It will be closer to what you have than the later Ace 100's. While everyone's comments are true for the later Ace 100's, they aren't for the early ones. It seems to be forgotten or something, that the first Ace 100's were more of an engine upgrade than anything else.

The first Ace 100's used the same wiring diagram as the Ace 90, with the only difference being the external coil vs the internal coil. The absence of the Emergency switch on the underside of the headlight bucket will confirm. If you look at the Ace 90 diagram, your wiring will begin to make more sense and quite possibly answer your Blue wire questions.

I posted a diagram for the early Ace 100 a year or two ago from my Ace 90 manual with the Ace 100 supplement for someone with a similar problem. I'll see if I can find it again... or post the photo again if I can find it.

As for your original questions. Unless you can find someone with a spare key you can copy, your best bet is to just get one from Paul. With the early diagram you only need the blue and black wires going to the coil under the tank to start. There is another black wire in the 2nd bunch of wires from the magneto. Use this to kill the engine by grounding it out until you get the key problem sorted out.

I use a Sealed Lead Acid battery with great success. There should be a 6v 4.5Ah at your local battery store. It's smaller than the original battery but you can fill the extra space with a piece of foam or something.

Roger

[sparkyj]

Thanks Roger, I just saw this. For some reason I'm not getting notified of updates to the forum. This info may dispel all the mystery. And i was just about to rewire the bike! I can find the Ace 90 wire diagram I think. I'll have a look and then see if there are any changes I should make. I would like to add a fuse if that is recommended. (5amp?). And I did find a 6v/5Ah sealed battery. As soon as I sort out my stuck piston rings issue I can get onto this step!
Thank you all so much.

[sparkyj]

The Hodaka Ace 90 Wiring Diagram is exactly the way my bike is wired. Bravo.

[sparkyj]

OK, my new Hodaka Ace 100 key does not fit the key hole. Notice the keyhole has a notch on the side of the key that is smooth. What could have happened here? I will have to take this switch out and take it to a lock smith. The keyhole is clear, no broken key in there. Scratching head. Is it possible to fit the lock barrel from other years or other bikes into th 3121 housing?

[rlkarren]

That's the correct key for that switch. Unless someone has already made some mods to the switch, that key should work.

It's a very good chance things are frozen up inside the key switch. I'll bet the wafers are stuck after many years of non-use. A couple squirts of PB Blaster or something similar, letting it soak for a minute or few, should free things up.

The last photo is the correct orientation.

Roger

[sparkyj]

Thanks for the reply. Key can't fit the slot. The ribbed channel on the key slot is on the opposite side that this key's is on. The key hole/slot has a flat side (left) and a channeled side (right) the tumblers are on the lower position (nearest edge of barrel) and all are flexible and functioning. I'd be half way there if the key had the rib on the other side. Possibly a different barrel is in place even though the collar is stamped 3121. (?). Maybe the barrel cluster is from an ACE 100 "B" not an "A"? Worth a shot . See pic.

[Dale]

Sparkyj,
I have a model 92 Ace 100 with the same issue as you. I also ordered keys that would not work. I did find a Hodaka key with the ridge on the opposite side and then had a locksmith re-cut it to match my original key (which was ready to break in two).

I will research this more tomorrow and share numbers...
Dale

[sparkyj]

Was the key you found by chance a wombat or ACE 100 B key? A square key?

[Dale]

Here are several pictures of my 1968 Model 92 Ace 100 key situation.

The switch and the original (square) key are both marked 6457. The key that I had cut was a 3121 but had the ridge on the incorrect side for an Ace 90 and could not be used. I had this strange 3121 key re-cut to match the 6457 key. Perhaps my backwards 3121 key was the perfect key for your switch???

Switch marked 6457

Ace 100 original key 6457 on left 3121 on right

My two Ace 100 keys on left, Ace 90 (3121) key on right

[sparkyj]

I'm going to bet that the Red Ace 90 key is exactly the one I need for my ignition
Are those available?