The 4th Hodaka - 2nd Road Toad!

[Bill2001]

Exactly, Max. My local Ace is run by a grumpy middle-aged guy, but he knows his stuff and has good stock. And his help.is knowledgeable and friendly. I grumple back at him and go on. Have for years. The thing about Ace is that they have a great selection of fasteners.

[matt glascock]

Right on, Maxie and Bill! Brick, mortar, and good, helpful people - still a great combo!

[viclioce]

High Matt! Don't need a trip to Ace but I think I am getting close! Going to give it another try today! Hope to report it running today! Victor

[matt glascock]

Excellent, Victor. The first fire-up is only eclipsed in coolness by the first ride!

[viclioce]

I've been really busy with Easter services this week. Holy Thursday, Good Friday and the Easter Vigil tonight. My choir does the music for all of this! My busiest week of the year! I'm hoping to get to finish her up enough to do the break in heat cycles on Sunday! A great day to Ressurect an old bike! Victor

[viclioce]

Damn!!! It's snowing here again today! 33* F outside as a highly 3:30 this afternoon! Victor

[viclioce]

As if things weren't bad enough with the snow almost all day today, now we have a winter storm warning through Sunday morning!

Areas Affected: Estancia Valley; Santa Fe Metro Area; Jemez Mountains
The National Weather Service in Albuquerque has issued a Winter
Storm Warning for heavy snow, which is in effect from midnight
tonight to 3 AM MDT Sunday.

* SNOW ACCUMULATIONS...Generally 4 to 8 inches, with over one foot
possible in the Jemez Mountains.

* TIMING...Snow will become heavier and more widespread late
tonight through Saturday, then taper off Saturday evening.

* WINDS...Increasing east 15 to 25 mph tonight, then turning north
Saturday.

* SNOW LEVELS...Will be cold enough for snow at all elevations
overnight through Saturday.

* LOCAL IMPACTS...Travel may become hazardous or impossible over
portions of north central New Mexico Saturday, especially on
Interstate 25 near Santa Fe, Interstate 40 between Sedillo Hill
and Moriarty and Highway 285. In addition, heavy snow
accumulating on trees that have already leafed-out may lead to
tree damage and falling limbs.
A Winter Storm Warning for heavy snow means severe winter weather
conditions are expected or occurring. Significant amounts of snow
are forecast that will make travel dangerous. Only travel in an
emergency. If you must travel, keep an extra flashlight, food,
and water in your vehicle in case of an emergency. And bring in your pets.

[viclioce]

As if we didn't get enough with it snowing almost all day today, now there's a Winter Storm warning for tonight through Sunday morning!

Areas Affected: Estancia Valley; Santa Fe Metro Area; Jemez Mountains
The National Weather Service in Albuquerque has issued a Winter Storm Warning for heavy snow, which is in effect from midnight
tonight to 3 AM MDT Sunday.

* SNOW ACCUMULATIONS...Generally 4 to 8 inches, with over one foot possible in the Jemez Mountains.

* TIMING...Snow will become heavier and more widespread late tonight through Saturday, then taper off Saturday evening.

* WINDS...Increasing east 15 to 25 mph tonight, then turning north Saturday.

* SNOW LEVELS...Will be cold enough for snow at all elevations overnight through Saturday.

* LOCAL IMPACTS...Travel may become hazardous or impossible over portions of north central New Mexico Saturday, especially on Interstate 25 near Santa Fe, Interstate 40 between Sedillo Hill
and Moriarty and Highway 285. In addition, heavy snow accumulating on trees that have already leafed-out may lead to tree damage and falling limbs.
A Winter Storm Warning for heavy snow means severe winter weather conditions are expected or occurring. Significant amounts of snow
are forecast that will make travel dangerous. Only travel in an emergency. If you must travel, keep an extra flashlight, food, and water in your vehicle in case of an emergency. And bring in your pets.

GREAT! Hope it warms up during the week ahead! Victor

[matt glascock]

Yuck. I will quit whining about the low of 35 last night.

[viclioce]

Here's what it looked like at 10:00 am this morning! More to come! Victor

[viclioce]

OK. After 10" of heavy wet snow on Saturday, it was almost all melted on Sunday and we reached a high of 58*F!
I got out and worked on the Red Toad. Got the points gapped at .010 at TDC, or as close as I could get the flywheel to TDC. Nothing. No burps, no almosts, not a single pop from the engine. Plug is gapped at .025 & I must have kicked the kickstart at least 50 times. Not great for my messed up right knee, but I gave it my best effort.
Beginning to wonder if this coil is giving me spark but not a good enough spark. I'm considering changing out the coil but I will test the current one, one more time.
Aside from the coil, anyone have any other ideas? I'm sure the condenser is new, but I have a spare. May have to consider changing that out as well? Hmmmmm....... Victor
(You may have noticed I've changed from ; D to because that's how this bike makes me feel! Like a greenhorn!). Victor

[rlkarren]

Your point gap should be .012" to .014".

[Hydraulic Jack]

As far as I can gather from the thread, this engine has not run in your presence at any time. If correct, then you are starting from the very beginning.

Have you verified function of the ignition primary coil? Not shorted? Resistance more or less the same as, say, a Wombat? Blue and black wires running from magneto to secondary coil area have continuity and are not shorted or broken? Condenser bench tests correctly? Flywheel clean and bright inside with no rust? Coil cores not dragging on the flywheel? Points actually function, and are not broken, greasy, pitted, etc? Spark plug wire not broken somewhere inside the casing?

A full function test of a magneto ignition requires a few tools, such as a multi-tester and feeler gauge. Specs may not be available for the RT, but should be similar to the last Hodaka that did have published numbers. Otherwise, since you do have a running example of the same sort of bike, you can do a comparison between known good components and those on the bike that won't spark.

As for point gap. Yours is probably too close but that alone would not stop it from making a spark, it would just be a little bit out of time and possibly a bit weak due to insufficient dwell. Set the point break at the timing mark and let the gap be what it needs to be to break the points when the marks line up. That's why the point gap is listed as a range between which it should fall, because there is no one perfect setting for all bikes. But if you set the gap going in with a measurement within the range, it will be close enough to run.

Verify spark or no spark with the plug out of the head and grounded against the engine. Use a new plug for this test to eliminate the possibility that your plug is fouled. If you get no spark, it won't run no matter how hard you kick. If it does spark, it will run when timed more or less correctly. If the spark is erratic or weak and yellow, you have a parts problem. Don't assume that the condenser is good simply because it is new. Small parts these days may be no good right out of the box, and a condenser is delicate, and easily damaged by soldering the wires to the contact point. Remove it entirely from the magneto assembly and test its capacity in farads, not in ohms. You can't ohm test a condenser except to identify a short circuit.

Bottom line here is that you can't assume anything, and must individually test everything. This could be as simple as a wiring screw up that grounds the system. Or it could have multiple failed parts. No way to guess the answer.

[viclioce]

Really? My book says .008 to .010! That's what's in my owner's manual. I'll open it up a bit more. Wish me luck! Victor

[viclioce]

Danny Cooke sent me the magneto coil set. I did verify spark previously in the manner you mentioned. The spark was blue in color. I was close to firing a couple of times but this time nothing. I'm going open the gap more & pull the plug again and test again for blue spark, just to reconfirm.

I noticed I was having fuel flow problems out of the tank. It doesn't seem to want to flow through the in line fuel filter I purchased, though it's the same as the ones I've used on the other bikes. Had to pull the filter off and just let fuel flow through tubing alone.

I do have a multi meter for testing. But if I get blue spark on the plug shouldn't that mean the condenser & coil and magneto are all functioning within normal parameters? Flywheel was sanded free of rust and shiny on the inside surface.

I'm teaching again today & tomorrow, so I'll have to get back to it mid week. I'll keep you all posted. Victor

[viclioce]

Went out to the garage this am & the Red Toad had fallen over on the lift!!! It landed on its side with the handlebars straight down, catching its wright.

No damage thankfully! But it appears to have leaked all the fuel and possibly all the oil out on the garage floor! Guess I'll need to drain the oil & see what's left in the cases. Fortunately they wasn't a whole lot of fuel left in the tank.

Nothing like another set back! I hope I get a break with this bike soon. It's all but done now if I can just get it to run. Victor

[Bullfrog]

What book specifies .008" - .010" point gap for a Road Toad? Clymer? Other? Just curious.
Ed

[Bullfrog]

DOH. On review I see that you mentioned it was the Owner's Manual. Which leaves me still curious, since my Road Toad Owner's Manual lists - Contact Breaker Gap .012" to .014" (.3mm to .4mm)
Ed

[RichardMott]

One of these $5.00 items can be a big help. I carry one with me to determine if I have spark.

https://www.harborfreight.com/90-inline ... 69023.html

[viclioce]

Yesterday we had rain & hail which saturated the ground. Then, just to be funny, the winds kicked up hard enough to blow down sections of fence and uproot trees!!! Today we got more rain & hail just in time for picking up the grandsons from school! Snow, followed by hail, rain and wind?!?! I guess Spring is here and Winter has left??? Victor

[viclioce]

Back to work on this Red Toad today. I am sure I have the flywheel hash mark set at TDC when gapping and have the gap meticulously set at .013. Check the plug for spark, & even wth the head being painted I get an extreme burst of spark when the plug is pulled and held against the head. Compression is 110-115 with all stock components, an Art piston & rings and std. gaskets top & bottom. When I pour a small amount of fuel into the spark plug hole, reassemble and kick I get 5-7 ignition bursts and then nothing more.

Kill switch is currently disconnected so it's not an issue. Carb slide is a 2.5. I'd have to pull the slide to tell you which needle but it's believed to be OEM & the clip is in the middle, 3rd position.

Carb has been completely cleaned. Main jet and pilot jet are clear and all passages are clear. Air screw is out at 1.5 turns from completely closed. What the heck am I missing? My poor nephew has been here 3 times already waiting for the Toad to start! Suggestions?!?!?! Victor

[viclioce]

Here's a couple of pics. In both the summary and in the ignition section of my Owner's Manual on page 12 it says contact breaker gap should be .008 to .010 (2.4 - 2.5 mm). But everyone says set it at .013.
Now, I don't have one of those great timing lit or buzzer units some of you have. But I've never had this kind of difficulty before either. Where is a good place to get one, & would it really make a significant difference?

And the first pic shows how I'm lining up on the left mark on the case. Victor

[ossa95d]

Vic the most important part of the timing instructions is that the points should just be starting to open when the flywheel mark is aligned with the right hand mark on the case. In other words the points should be closed right up until the two marks align. This would be very close to the correct timing of 2.4mm before top dead center. The point at which the contact points start to break is when the plug will fire. This is the critical measurement. The gap will be what it is, but should fall in the proper range or something else may be worn or out of whack. I hope this is helpful.

[viclioce]

Pop. Talked with Danny today. I'm going to pull the stator from my Model 94 bottom end and test with it because it's a known good. Though I'm getting spark with the plug out of the cylinder, I need to know that it's working correctly when the plug is in the cylinder head. I've noticed that when I put fuel in through the plug hole in the head, I get a few pops occasionally, but not as many as I should. With the amount of fuel I add via the spark plug hole it should at least run for a couple of seconds, not 5 or 6 pops & quit. So I'm going to test with a known good stator and make sure the one currently in there isn't defective.
It would seem the bike should start and run, even just poorly, if it was just a minor gapping issue. Whether gapped at .008, .010, .012 or .014, it should start and run, especially with fuel being poured directly into the cylinder. Everything else seems to be OK and the fact that the plug stays wet after it fires a few times and no longer tuns tells me fuel is getting sucked into the cylinder through the carb, but not being burned. If it wasn't, the plug should burn the fuel poured in and then go dry. So I'm still betting on it being an electrical issue of some kind. Trouble shooting these kinds of issues can be a pain in the butt. I have to walk away and clear my head so I can think clearly about what is & isn't happening! Victor

[taber hodaka]

Pop you are so right on! Victor you can look in and see the points just start to open. As the flywheel is moving counter clockwise and the marks line up with the timing marks on the right side of the engine case the points should just be starting to open. ------Clarence