Question about bikes with batteries

[viclioce]

OK. So can I start a Road Toad without a battery in it? I know if I pull the ignition switch wires I can, right?

I want to start the bike before I get the battery, but I'm wondering the best way to do it. Except for bolting the seat on, and the battery being installed, the Red Toad is done. I want to be able to start it, adjust the carbs & wait for the battery to arrive.

I'm guessing I can't trouble shoot the lights & other electrical components without the battery, just want to start it. Let me know! Victor

[rlkarren]

Just make sure you have a kill switch. Ignition and lights are isolated circuits

[thrownchain]

If the key switch works, you don't have to unplug it.

[viclioce]

But if the key is ON but there's no battery, the bike won't start, right? Victor

[taber hodaka]

Pull the spark plug and test for spark with the key on and off. Clarence

[Bullfrog]

When the key is ON, the bike should start. Not having a battery will have no effect on that.

Operating the lights without a battery puts them at greater risk of burning out - so don't turn on the lights till you get a battery installed.

[viclioce]

Thanks Ed! That clears it up for me! I knew I wouldn't be able to check the lights and whatnot without the battery, but wasn't sure about starting it. Didn't know if both the ignition and lighting circuits went through the switch or if it was just the lights. Victor

[Bullfrog]

Well, everything does go through the main switch . . . but there are separate circuits.

[Bill2001]

We ought to work up a simplified alternator/AC -- rectified DC/Battery power circuit, with magneto ignition, schematic, based on the Hodaka/UJM circuits. Even simplified from the ones in our shop manuals.

[viclioce]

So will my Toad start, with no battery in it, and the ignition switch connected & turned on? Even if there is no connectivity across the battery cables/wires? I'm getting more confused!!! Victor

[thrownchain]

Yes, the ignition is a magneto, it generates it' own voltage to spark the coil. It is totally separate from the lighting circuit which generates voltage for the lights and charging the battery. The battery is there to absorb extra voltage that would burn out the light bulbs. It will run with out the lights on. Turn the key on and go for it.

[taber hodaka]

Spark at the right time, proper amount of fuel and compression. Hear it run! -----Clarence

[viclioce]

OK. Nephew comes over today! Victor

[Bill2001]

Yes Clarence...
The Three Mystical Humours of Internal Combustion. Fyre, Ayre and Fuele.

[Bullfrog]

Here is the "Ignition Only" wiring diagram for the toaster tank Wombat (Model 94) . . . which almost exactly the same as for the Road Toad. The difference is that the Road Toad has a "Kill Switch" which wasn't on the Wombat.

The magneto generates its own power to create spark for the engine to run - no battery needed.

A "bonus" on this diagram is the detail of the Main Switch connections in the "OFF" position. Note that in the "OFF" position, the "IG" pole is connected to the "E" ("Earth" or "ground") pole of the main switch. This connection "shorts" any power generated by the magneto directly to "ground" . . . so the high tension coil (under the tank) doesn't get any "juice" to use to make spark voltage - and the engine can't start.

Turning the Main Switch to the "DAY" or the "NIGHT" position DIS-connects the "IG" pole from the "E" pole. With the magneto "juice" no longer shorted to ground, it can travel up to the high tension coil under the tank to help make spark. So the Main Switch doesn't turn the engine "ON", it really "un-kills" the engine. Sorry, that may have been too much detail - but it is interesting that the main switch "un-connects" something to allow the engine to run. But it does explain why simply disconnecting the Main Switch will allow the engine to run . . . important if you have forgotten (or lost) your key . . . or if the Main Switch is faulty. (I'd REALLY like to have a kill switch in the circuit, if the Main Switch is disconnected.)

Ed

[viclioce]

What position should the AC/DC (day/night) switch be in, or does it make any difference? I'm not sure the battery has a charge to it. Need to find my 6v charger & bring it up to full charge. But is there a "better" position for the switch on the headlight to be in for starting the bike? I put the Ace battery on prinarily to just close the circuit. Victor

[Bullfrog]

The AC/DC switch would normally be in the AC position - which powers the headlight from the magneto. (Lights work when the engine is running.)

When the AC/DC switch is in the DC position - the headlight is powered by the battery. This allows the lights to work when the engine is not running (and there is a charged battery connected to the system).

The standard Toad main switch only has "ON" and "OFF" positions - which is another difference from the Wombat diagram above (sorry about that). Anyway, with the Road Toad - turning the main switch "ON" also turns the lighting system "ON" - and the lights will come on when the engine starts if the AC/DC switch is in the AC position. The solid state voltage regulator on the Toad should protect the lights from over-voltage even when a battery is not connected to the system.

Ed