Project Dirt Squirt

[Dale]

The last I knew, Hodaka was a Registered Trademark of Strictly Hodaka. Has that changed? If not, you would need permission before doing this type of thing.

[hodakamax]

Unless Paul says differently, you may restore trademarks for your own use but you cannot sell them to others. Being a Photographer and my wife a Graphic Artist we run into this frequently when doing publications involving Trademarks and Copyrights.

Max

[Bullfrog]

Actually Trademarks protect things that are being sold. So one shouldn't set up to produce and sell things with the Hodaka logo on them without first obtaining a production license (or other form of permission). I'm pretty sure using a logo on something for personal use only . . . is OK.
Ed

[Dale]

I understand the concept of personal use vs making a profit. It just seems to push it to talk about it on the site that owns the trademark and finances this forum. Just sayin!!!

[admin]

Thanks Dale! Just catching this thread. I have a call into my DC trademark attorney now to verify what is right and what is wrong legally with this situation.

The thing is this. We have always tried to do the right thing here at SH always. When it came time to apply for the Hodaka trademark and Hodaka logo trademark I spoke with Mildred Miley who's husband Ed owned PABATCO to get her blessing. She gave it to me along with anything that she could do to help me so to protect the name. The trademarks for Hodaka, Hodaka PABATCO along with the logo trademarks cost well over $ 10,000.00 and need to be kept up constantly. We allow the Hodaka club to use the name and logo at no charge and in any way they choose to do it.
We ask that no one sells Hodaka tshirts at Hodaka Days except the Hodaka Club. Not even SH will sell Hodaka shirts at Hodaka Days so not to compete with the club.

Even the point of having a building here with Hodaka parts. We pay state and federal taxes on all sales. We pay workmans compensation to the help. We pay for a portion of the helps insurance. We have the parts and bikes insured for God knows how much but it is a ton and the insurance premiums reflect that. My point is that we try to do the right thing.
It has to be me now that I am almost 60 and look at life differently than most but the posts here about making a Hodaka screen so you can put on the back of your seats may or may not be illegal but it is wrong. We at SH host this forum which also costs a ton to do we do not charge for this but there are people that use this forum and write " I've thought about making a silk screen to do the backs of my seats as well! "
Where is your sense of decency ? It would be like me making copies of photographs that Victor has taken and sells. I make copies and include them with all of my orders and post them on the internet of course there is no charge and of course do not mention Victor by name.
I could not do this because it is not morally right. Obviously others have no problem with this concept.

I honestly believe the world has changed and not always in a good way.
As a very dear old white haired guy would have said if he was still here "I'll be go to hell"

[Zeek]

Oh jeez.
For one I didn't know you owned Hodaka. For two I have no intention of selling it.
I'm simply restoring a seat.
If it means that much to you I won't use it

[admin]

The word from the trademark attorney in Washington confirms what Max and Ed said that if someone uses the name/words/logo " Hodaka" for personal use only there is no violation or infringement.

[Darrell]

It simply seems better and cheaper to buy a seat cover from SH. I've bought two so far (94 and 70) and they were perectly cut and stitched from a much higher grade vinyl than stock. Can't see how messing around will save anything, time and aggravation especially .

[hodakamax]

A bit more clarification on using trademarks. My wife designed the tank logo for the Day One project. We only renamed the bike for what it was. A newspaper needs no permission to use the Hodaka name as in "Max Good won his class on a Hodaka"
nor do you to relabel your Chevy or BSA. Trademarks are to protect the owners property from others profiting by using it. You should feel no guilt from printing your own seat label for your bike nor I for printing my own tank transfers. No laws or ethics have been violated. It's only when you copy trademarks or photographs in the case of copyrights that are sold to others would you be in violation of the laws meant to protect others property.

Max

[Zeek]

It simply seems better and cheaper to buy a seat cover from SH. I've bought two so far (94 and 70) and they were perectly cut and stitched from a much higher grade vinyl than stock. Can't see how messing around will save anything, time and aggravation especially .

Yes you're right. I don't know what came over me in wanting to restore this bike.
I should have just contracted to buy an already built and legal version.

[taber hodaka]

Zeek I am so glad you are progressing on the project. Your project has had 134 response's and 6889 viewers Many of us are checking your progress. -------------Clarence

[viclioce]

Max. Thank you, from someone who had a thought. ; D Victor

[mac]

Probably not a good idea,but I,m gonna put my two cents in anyway.

To do what you are doing with your own seats is perfectly legal.To post it on here is kinda like biting the hand that feeds you or a kick in the face.

Why? Well for one this site is up and running because of SH.They have spent thousands of dollars to come up with parts for us over the years that probably would have never been made available to us with the dedication and huge cash out lay by Paul.

So I can see how he might view it as putting out the idea of "hey,why buy this or that when you can just do this" which leads to less sales for him being posted on his site.Almost like anti-advertising.

So maybe some ideas should not be posted just out of respect.Does this make sense? To me it does.

I don,t post on here much so maybe I have no say in the matter and I am not trying to make anyone mad or dis them.I just thought I would try to explain how,maybe,SH views it in a fair explanation.

[bchappy]

Excellent summary Mac. I personally would like to thank Paul for all he has done so we can keep our bikes running.

[taber hodaka]

Zeek how about a update? Clarence

[viclioce]

Come on now. If you read his last few posts in this thread, and saw his signature line it includes the statement "Unhappy little Dirt Squirt owner" so it may be a bit longer before "Zeek" makes any posts.

People don't always appreciate being treated like this. And then when someone says they figured out what they may have THOUGHT you were doing, or talking about, wasn't wrong after all, and fail to apologize for their accusations with the same gusto with which they were made, it can leave a bitter taste in a person's mouth. While I can completely undetstand people's desire to protect someone, the way some folks attack others here can sonetines be overwhelming. And then there's the failure to realize that attacks like those above can hurt SH more in the vain of someone never wanting to buy products from them again. So folks should be more careful about how they "swing a double edged sword."

[taber hodaka]

Zeek how About some updates we sure do like your project and are amazed at the perfection. Share with us.. And Victor I do understand life. I am a fence mender, I like to see conflict dissolved, and try to help remove bumps in the path of life. Every day is a couple of free ones for me. Upward and onward. words don't hurt me because I am water with a duck on my back. The very best of day to all.--------Clarence

[viclioce]

Clarence, you've figured out what life is about! Thanks for your attitude & disposition! ; D Victor

[MTRob]

The last I knew, Hodaka was a Registered Trademark of Strictly Hodaka. Has that changed? If not, you would need permission before doing this type of thing.

My lawyer looked at the trademark, Strickly Hodaka only has the trade mark on a certain letter in the word Hodaka if you leave the o out and replace with just an o your not in trouble. Its like Yamaha you can use it anywhere. Strickly Hodaka used there desighn in the O and registered it, smart move
Check it out
MTRob

[Zeek]

Well I don't know where I can go with this thread now?
The original plan was and still is to put this bike back to how it was.
So restoring the seat is a part of that plan as is restoring the original dealer stickers that were on it.
Of course others now reserve the right to suggest whether or not I can do this, either legally or morally it seems.
I see other builds here plastered with home grown Trademark symbols and not a single peep from the scrutineers.
Why happily take my money when i buy something , then bitch about being diddle out of sales when i make a part?
Great advertising strategy.

Anyway, rant over.

So next update if I'm allowed, will be on the remaking of the dealer stickers, which was noted early on in this thread.

[taber hodaka]

Looking forward to all the updates -------Clarence

[Zeek]

So i got hold of a Wombat rear guard at last.
Hoping this will work as far as being able to fit a taillight.
There certainly a difference between the Squirt and Wombat fenders.

This is the Wombat mocked up:
looks BIG! but I think once the seat and light go on it may balance out better?

[Zeek]

So these are the two dealership stickers that were still on the bike. The dealership was closed when the owner passed around 25 years ago, but I think they are an important part of this bike's history and need to be replaced.



Been waiting ages for a sticker shop to do them, but have now given up and re-drawn them myself..pretty close i think.
I have a new shop that will print them shortly.
I believe they can print them onto a shiny foil base, the white areas showing here will be "chrome" look.

[Darrell]

Well I don't know where I can go with this thread now?
The original plan was and still is to put this bike back to how it was.
So restoring the seat is a part of that plan as is restoring the original dealer stickers that were on it.
Of course others now reserve the right to suggest whether or not I can do this, either legally or morally it seems.
I see other builds here plastered with home grown Trademark symbols and not a single peep from the scrutineers.
Why happily take my money when i buy something , then bitch about being diddle out of sales when i make a part?
Great advertising strategy.

Anyway, rant over.

So next update if I'm allowed, will be on the remaking of the dealer stickers, which was noted early on in this thread.

If trademark and copyright protection regulations are similar I would say that as a non-commercial user you're not stepping over any legal or ethical boundaries.

As well, it looks like you also come with considerable graphic design and printing skills to flex. Both my Hodakas had dealership stickers that I would like to have reproduced, if I knew how to go about it. One of the original dealers was still living at the time of my first Hodaka restoration and I'm sure he would have been flattered if I had reproduced the sticker for his dealership named, "The Trail Rider".

[viclioce]

Welcome back Glenn! Glad to hear from you! Keep moving forward. ; D Victor