New Hodaka owner has questions

[Keeferton]

Hi all,

Just picked up a 1968 model 92 Ace 100 off the local craigslist here in Oregon and it needs some help and so do I. Good thing about this bike is that there is only minor rust and no corrosion what so ever. No cracks in the cases and the motor has good compression from what i can tell but has not been ran in about five years because of "transmission problems." The previous owner claimed that something is stuck.

With this limited information does anyone have any advice on where to start diagnosing this transmission? I already pulled the motor and nothing appeared to be broken from popping off the clutch cover. I am just stumped on how the shift lever attaches to the gears based off the 100cc schematics and the fact the cover with the shift lever just popped off with two screws that hold the cover to the case.

If you could not tell I have very little experience with the inner workings of these transmissions. I would be willing to give out my number if someone wanted to chat, you all seem like a very tight knit group and very helpful. Thanks!

EDIT: i found the manuals someone listed on another thread but i am not sure which one i need. Frame number is A-19xxx and the motor is P-20001+

[rdbrooks14]

Hi and welcome...

A couple of questions...

First of all, Does the bike shift at all? Or is the shifter locked in place.

Go here an look at this picture...

http://www.strictlyhodaka.com/SearchRes ... p?Cat=2242

Are you talking about the TWO (2) screws that hold Part #15 Shifter Cover on? Or what?

If you look at this picture and the rest of the parts diagram it should help you understand.

Remove the entire shifter cover and the way this thing shifts should make more sense...

The shifter arm you see behind the small plate, moves in and out when you shifts and moves the Control arm in this picture (#16) that engages the gears...

http://www.strictlyhodaka.com/SearchRes ... p?Cat=2244

So what is going on - more detail Bitte?

Bob in MD

[Keeferton]

The two screws i was talking about are number (15) in the picture. I fear that (#16) might be missing... but when the motor was still mounted you could see the arm moving in and out with each click because the magneto cover was off but did not seem to change the gears.

Ill try to get some pics tomorrow, i have the bike at my shop and am home for the day. I was kind of in shock once i got the bike to my shop because of the amount of work to get this thing running came to light so i think a cooler head will prevail tomorrow.

Heres some pics of her



Have no idea what kind of seat that is but i would like to throw new foam and a seat cover on.

[rdbrooks14]

Ok sounds good.

You know have the link to the part blow up.

The shifter case/cover is also what you are calling the Magneto Cover. You can look at the blowup and see what all should be in there. Check that out and let us know.

Second, with the shifter cover off... Spin the sprocket... While it is free wheeling pull the control rod in and out a little and see if it engages in a gear. The farthest out position that engages is 1st. You should be able to do small inward steps to find 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th.

Let us know...

Bob in MD

[Keeferton]

Here are some images of inside the magneto cover. I am beginning to think that the guy that sold me this just had no idea what was going on and there is nothing wrong with the trans. I was however able to move the sprocket shaft? In and out and it did not seem to "click into the different gears and i was able to pull it out about 3-4" I probably could have kept going but didn't want to mess anything up. Should I bolt here back up or is there something I'm missing here? Any good way to test the inner workings with the motor off the bike?

[hodakaronwa]

Yes it's old"all Hodakas are old now" no big deal. engines are simple "a manual is mandatory for new owners" study it and read through it.
Get an idea what's happening when you shift. Freshen the engine up, service the shift cover "flywheel cover as per the manual" pull and replace the "ball recaiver and springs "kit" from strictly hodaka. Will need special tool or borrow from a friend. It will run like new when you are finshed, we will gladly give information and opinions. Stay with us.

[Keeferton]

Thanks for the reply. I'm guessing this is the kit you are talking about: http://www.strictlyhodaka.com/ProductDe ... 202502_92A

And this looks like the closest thing i could find to a manual for this bike on the site: http://www.strictlyhodaka.com/ProductDe ... de=929510D

[Dale]

Yes, a manual is a must and a good start...

You can confirm that the transmission internals are shifting by moving the shift control shaft in or out with one hand as you rock the countershaft sprocket back and forth with the other hand. You will feel the end of the control shaft movement against the internal springs as you pull it out. It pulls out like 3 inches... There is no distinct click or locking into any gear and it takes a little experience to "feel" each gear. As stated earlier, all the way out will be 1st gear. The countshaft sprocket should be "in gear" at this point. Pushing the control shaft in a very small amount will find Neutral then 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th. Note that you may find spots that seem like neutral in between gears and that is normal.

Again, without a good understanding of the internal workings, the feel part of this testing will most likely be confusing. The good news is that everything is pretty easy to work on, parts are available as are opinions and advice.
Good luck,
Dale

[Dale]

You will want the shop manual.
http://www.strictlyhodaka.com/ProductDe ... ode=209000

[Keeferton]

Yes, a manual is a must and a good start...

You can confirm that the transmission internals are shifting by moving the shift control shaft in or out with one hand as you rock the countershaft sprocket back and forth with the other hand. You will feel the end of the control shaft movement against the internal springs as you pull it out. It pulls out like 3 inches... There is no distinct click or locking into any gear and it takes a little experience to "feel" each gear. As stated earlier, all the way out will be 1st gear. The countshaft sprocket should be "in gear" at this point. Pushing the control shaft in a very small amount will find Neutral then 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th. Note that you may find spots that seem like neutral in between gears and that is normal.

Again, without a good understanding of the internal workings, the feel part of this testing will most likely be confusing. The good news is that everything is pretty easy to work on, parts are available as are opinions and advice.
Good luck,
Dale

Everything feels like you described. Ill try to get that manual and do some service and cleaning before throwing it back in.

Starting to get some faith in this beast!

I am also going to need a new carb. The one that came with it is nasty and is missing the entire throttle valve assembly/mixing chamber parts. Will any Mikuni VM20 carb do? There seem to be plenty of them out there.

[rlkarren]

I was in the same boat as you when I found my Ace 90 buried in Dad's backyard. (yes, you read that right, buried). It all seemed very intimidating. But I took it one step at time and found that these Bikes are really very simple. I was also pleasantly surprised when I disassembled the engine. It just wasn't as complicated as I thought would be. Make sure you keep track how things came off and the order which it came off as you disassemble. My method was to take things off and place a wire through them, preserving the order and orientation of the parts as they came off, and twist it shut.

I second the "get a manual" comments. It proved very helpful for me. Previous to my "find", I had little to no experience with 2-strokes, let alone Motorcycles.

A couple random hints that were useful to me: (OK, maybe one...)

1. Patience. Patience. Patience. Sometimes it takes a few days to loosen a stuck screw, nut, or bolt.

The VM20 carbs you purchase today are not the same VM20 carbs 30 - 40 years ago. I believe Paul has a conversion kit for a VM22 now, but you can keep an eye out for used ones on the auction sites. I had to purchase two incomplete carbs to make one complete and it took a couple months to find them.

Hope that helps

Roger

[Bruce Young]

Hello, we at Hodakaparts.com in Idaho, have several of used VM 20 carbs if you enterested, as well as other pre-owned supplies to help save some dollars in this rebuild. Thanks Bruce Young

[Keeferton]

Whew... luckily there was a spare carb on ebay for not too much money so i snatched it up for parts.

The engine most definitely needs to be cleaned. I have a solvent tank in my shop so that should be cake to flush. It is a very simply bike but, the further i dig the more stuff i find wrong which is kind of scary.

Thanks for everyone's help! Really need to get a manual but it costs almost half as much as the whole bike did for me.

[Pep]

Sounds like a fun project - you might want to get a manual, not sure if anyone's mentioned it
I have found that the best cure for patience on a rebuild is to GET MORE HODAKA'S! Helps to have one "soaking" while you're working on another one, or two, or ten...
Seriously, welcome to the forum and have a good time with the build - it's almost as much fun as riding them!
-Laurie

[Keeferton]

Got a manual coming! And pulled the head and piston and have flushed the bottom end with solvent. It was really gunked up and nasty down there but the cylinder and piston both looked like they were in great shape. I noticed that the case leaked quite a bit of the solvent when i had it soaking for a few minutes in there so i figured i would split it open and replace the gasket between 1L and 1R (picture below) but there doesn't seem to be one. Is there some sort of liquid gasket I should use? And yes i know "patience" but i would like to work on this a bit this weekend so would the best way to get inside the case be to remove the flywheel and sprocket and remove the 1L side of the case? So far I'm really liking working on this bike i just want to get bast the motor and on to the fun stuff

[Pep]

That's right, no gasket between the cases.
A lot of folks here use Permatex Anaerobic Gasket Maker (including myself) - good stuff, easy to use
I've also used ThreeBond, which works well too. Both are pretty easy to find.
I'm sure others will chime in
When you do seal the cases, grease the case screws and hand tighten (real tight). You might give it some time, then re-tighten. Personally, I don't use Lock-Tight or an impact driver when putting cases back together. Others might disagree.
Don't forget to dry fit the cases first to make sure all your gears turn and fit ok (a flipped gear or misplaced spacer will cause trouble).
You really might consider replacing the old shift springs in the transmission control shaft - I bet they need it. You can do it with the cases back together, but might be a little easier with everything out. And replace all the case seals and O-rings +/- bearings - it's worth waiting to seal the cases to get that stuff replaced.
Anyway, too much info probably
Have fun,
-Laurie

[Dale]

(it looks like Laurie beat me to the "submit" button. Well if that is not enough info, here is more!!!)
Correct. There is no gasket between the cases. Only a sealant is used. Like oil, everyone has their favorite. Some use silicone as it is easier to clean up than some brands of case sealant. Personally, I use Yamabond. The common warning is use it sparingly. Any excess that you see on the outside will be matched with excess on the inside...

There are only a couple of "specialty" tools that one needs to repair these motors. Go to the Strictly Hodaka home page and select "Tools, Oils & Lubes" in the left hand column and you will find each of these 3 items.
1. Flywheel puller.
2. Clutch/Flywheel holding tool
3. Control Shaft Snap Ring installation tool

Use a good quality penetrating oil to help with removal of all nuts and bolts. Also, all nuts are right handed with the exception of the clutch nut. The only other left handed thread that I know of is the inside hole of the flywheel (where the puller threads in).

For the countershaft sprocket removal, it is easiest to loosen it while you still have the motor in the frame and have the chain still installed. Straighten the locking washer tab and then you can sit on the bike and firmly apply the rear brake and use a 1/2" drive, 26mm socket to loosen the nut. Since you already have the motor pulled you might be able to use a strap wrench to hold the sprocket if it is not too tight???

For the flywheel, you will need the puller and holding tool.

Your shop manual will show a picture of a wooden jig that you can build to bolt your motor to and then place the wood in a shop vise. I highly recommend building one. There is another wooden jig that is a must and is also very easy to build. It allows you to lay the motor on the right side with the shafts protruding down into holes in the jig and holds everything in place while you split the cases and then again during assembly. There is a picture of one in the following post (about 3/4 down the article):
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=284&p=770&hilit=how ... +case#p770

Another tip: There is a tab on the Strictly Hodaka web page for technical tips. One article is on making a tool that helps break the cases open. Here is a link: http://www.strictlyhodaka.com/v/vspfile ... ticle5.JPG. I would also recommend spending time looking over some of the archived articles here on this site. There is some great info there.

Good luck. Hope this helps. Oh and by the way, I am fairly new at this too and none of these tips are my original ideas. There are some real pros here in Hodakaland and they are great to share their knowledge and experience. I hope that some will chime in to correct or add to my points above. And... once you are hooked on Hodaka's, you will want to look into joining the Hodaka Club. One of the perks is that you will receive a quarterly newsletter (The Resonator Revisited). It will have great technical tips and you will also have access to all past newletters.
Whew!
Dale

[Keeferton]

Thanks for the info! After looking at the other thread on the jig it looks like he did not remove his front sprocket when splitting the cases? If possible i would like to get away with just removing the flywheel as well.

I got a flywheel puller from the local motorcycle shop. It is a 27x1mm. Is this the right size?

Oh and I got a funny response from the repair guy when asked if they would split open the case for me... "no way are we touching a hodaka" I laughed.

[hodakaronwa]

Remove flywheel, remove counter sprocket, the cases on Hodakas I have opened up thousands of them and have yet to use any sort of case separating tool or device. They are not an interference fit like some other brands. After all the outer items are removed from the left side of the cases and the cylinder has been removed. I set the engine up right in the center of a large cookie or pastry pan, this will retain items which will fall out when you separate the center cases and it will catch the residual oil which always seems to run out. Make sure all your center case screws are removed, sometimes you have to drill off a screw head or two. After doing so many of them I don't waste my time with a screw driver any longer,I get my inertia type hand operated impact tool "operates by striking it with a brass hammer applying a slight pressure of rotation in the direction you want the screw to turn" It takes a #3 phillips tip available from SEARS Craftsman Tools. I buy them by the 6 at a time and exchange them for new with no charge when they become worn out or broken. I save the plastic hanger which comes with them when purchased then absolutely no questions are asked at the counter.
OK with the case setting "up-rite" in the center of the baking pan I hold on to the cases by the cylinder studs of the LEFT case, I use either a rubber, plastic or lead hammer "my favorite" It is a good idea to install the flywheel retaining nut and make sure your shift rod is all the way to the right side.
Now I gently rap back and fourth from the end of the crankshaft to the counter shaft working the cases apart evenly. Once you get the cases separated apart enough to clear the two alignment dowels about 5/8-7/8" the cases are basically open free. Most of the time the counter shaft balls and kick start rollers will start to fall into your baking pan along with some old oil.From her on you can do whatever with your bare hands. The screw heads which you removed will leave the length of the screw in the right case and can be either removed with your hands or with a pair of pliers.
Drilling the heads from the Phillips "cross head" #3 screws? I use a sharp 1/4" drill bit, when the head of the screw comes free of the threaded section of the screw the head will begin to spin, at that point "STOP" drilling as you are done. Any further drilling will damage your cases.
Now you have a nice pile of parts and pieces and gears all contained in your baking pan. Time to look at your parts break down and get familiar with what you have, what the parts are, where they go, and inspect them for damage and wear. Make sure all the OEM parts are actually there.

[Keeferton]

got it!

Ok on to the next thing. I seem to be missing the mixing chamber cap for my carb and it looks like they are not available anymore. Does anyone know of a modern direct replacement that will work?

[rlkarren]

There's one on eBay... at least there was a couple days ago..

yup, still there... http://www.ebay.com/itm/HODAKA-ACE100-C ... fe&vxp=mtr

It appears to be in better condition than he/she describes though. Soak in vinegar and you'll get rid of the rust, and you can straighten the other parts easily. If the slide is truly bent, that'll be difficult, but possible.

[Bruce Young]

Hello,, Please contact eather Hodakaparts.com in Idaho, or Strictly Hodaka for used part to help with missing carb parts. Thanks BCY hodakaparts.com Idaho

[rlkarren]

oops.. I'm sorry Bruce. I don't know why I keep forgetting about you. ::humbled again::

Yeah, Bruce at hodakaparts.com is a very good source for parts on Ace's.