Road Toad spark mysteriously disappears

[spudman]

Hey guys -
Well...I'm once again at a complete loss as to what happened. As some of you may have read, I had a float bowl overflow issue that I have now resolved. Unfortunately, I can't get the bike to fire now. The last time the bike was running was this past Sunday, when I shut off the fuel petcock and let the bike run until it stopped so as not to have the float bowl drip. Since then, the only work I had done on the bike before today was removing the carburetor and fixing the overflow issue. Last night, I tried starting the bike and found that I had no spark. Today I checked the points and cleaned them with a fine emery board and an alcohol pad. I adjusted the gap per the specs and still no spark. I can smell gas when kicking it over and when I check the spark plug (brand new...like the points) it is wet with gas. The battery is fully charged and all lights work fine. I'm guessing I should begin with the kill switch. I assume I can test it for the proper continuity or better yet, just disconnect the black and blue wires that lead from the switch to the black and blue wires at the coil. After that, I really don't know what my next steps should be. Oh...and as an added "bonus", while holding the flywheel today with my clutch/flywheel holding tool, I apparently had the "fingers" of this tool a bit too far into the oval holes in the flywheel. Using the flywheel puller, when the flywheel "broke" free from the keyed crankshaft...my hand slipped a bit and the tips of the holder tool extended further into the flywheel openings and broke off a few of the fiberboard-type "insulators" that are on each side of the lighting/exciting coils. I've included a few photos so you can see what I'm referring to. I'd say they were about 1/4" pieces that snapped off the ends. I'm hoping I won't need to replace the coils, but if so...I certainly will. I guess I'm just looking for some tips as to what items to check and in what order to check them to try and find the reason for my lack of spark. As always...your help & suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[dcooke007]

Spudman,
You can repair the missing fiber ends on your coils assuming the windings are not damaged. The fiber board insulates and secures the windings on the core. I simply use Permatex Ultra Grey rtv sealant as a sort of potting compound to accomplish the same purpose as the fiber board. This sealant sets up firmer than most other rtv's and has worked well for me. When using, cut the nozzle so it has a small opening so you can fill the void completely. Over lap some of the sealer on the remaining fiber spacers. It does not matter if it covers some of the coil windings. Allow the sealant to cure for 24 hours. The area to be repaired needs to be grease and contaminate free and you should use an electrical contact cleaner. Mine is CRC brand and purchased at Walmart. It will not damage the coil insulation or plastic insulator, cleans with out leaving a residue and dries almost instantaneously. Brake cleaner and carb cleaner can damage electrical components. Some of these coils are not readily available.

Why it wont start? While you have the flywheel off remove the stator and inspect. I have seen many stator wiring harnesses worn through on the back at the metal retaining clamp. Just something to check while you are there. Other possibilities exist of course.....condenser, etc...
Danny Cooke

[spudman]

Thank you Danny! I'll pick up both the sealant and the contact cleaner today and get to work. The coils themselves aren't damaged at all, so the insulator repair should be all I need to take care of. As far as the bike not starting, I will check the back of the stator for sure. You mentioned the condenser as a possibility....I already purchased the Daiichi replacement condenser that you mention in your thread about relocating the condenser up near the coil. I wasn't aware that a bad condenser could prevent the bike from starting; I guess I just thought it would make the bike run somewhat poorly. Anyway, when installing the condenser in the new location, does the old condenser actually need to be removed? I know you show in your thread that you removed the clump of wires from the stock condenser and soldered them together & then used the heat shrink butt connector to insulate it. I'm not real great at electrical theory though, so I didn't know if leaving the old condenser in place would prevent the new one from doing its job or not. Thanks in advance for your help Danny.

[dcooke007]

If you are going to relocate the condenser I would just remove it and get it out of the way. Just to be clear, the old condenser must be removed from the electrical circuit.

Danny Cooke

[spudman]

Thank you Danny. I'll get the old one out of there when I locate the new one up near the coil.

[spudman]

Success! Well...THAT was embarrassing. Took the fuel tank and seat off to begin the wiring troubleshooting process. Starting with the kill switch, I followed those two wires down to the coil where they plug in to one of those infamous "2 into 1" butt connectors. I grabbed one of the aforementioned connectors and there it was...the black wire from the stator coming into that same 2 into 1 connector literally fell out. I looked inside and immediately saw that the female connector was WAY too large to tightly hold the male end. The thing is, this was actually one of the connectors that I had cleaned a few weeks back along with many others...and I had also applied dielectric grease to the connectors. The problem is that all of those previously "CLEAR" plastic shields over all of these connections are now yellow with age, preventing anyone from actually seeing just how good the crimp is that holds the male connector inside the female (sorry if this is getting any of you excited... ). I took a razor blade and sliced both of those plastic shields open and made sure all the connections were crimped tightly and then taped them all up with electrical tape. Put it all back together and the bike started right up. The float bowl overflow problem having been previously solved...the bike ran almost perfectly! Just a little low end carb tuning and I think I'm done until I somehow disturb the next 41 year old part or connection that I'll need to repair. But that's the fun of it, right?? Thanks again for the tips and help guys!

[bobwhitman]

I've mentioned this before, but these things get lost in our haze of questions & comments: The following is a great source for correct re-wiring materials (and a great tool, too) for our old machines:
http://vintageconnections.com/
bob

[Dale]

I'll second that. Professional connections from your first try.

P.S. I'm glad that you identified your spark issue.

[spudman]

Thanks for the link to that Vintage Connections website Bob! Sadly, I'm now back to more carburetion issues, but they seem to be at least a little bit easier to diagnose than electrical gremlins.

[dcooke007]

Spudman,
Happy to hear you are back running. I also use Vintage Connections products and recommend them too.

Danny Cooke

[viclioce]

You do know that dielectric grease is non-conducting and should not be used between metal electrical connections, right? It's used for things like the outer connections on battery cables to stop or slow cable corrosion, but if put In between electrical connections, it can cause a break in the flow of electricity. Just something to think about. Dielectric grease is NOT a conducting agent. ; D Victor

[spudman]

Yeah...there are a million and one opinions on when, where and how to use dielectric grease. Here's one from another forum that I tend to agree with:

"Sorry, perhaps I should have explained a bit better. The specific formulation of dielectric grease allows for many typical mechanical electrical connections to 'penetrate through' the grease down to the base metal connection. The areas around the point connections are sealed off from atmosphere to prohibit corrosion or tarnishing that would otherwise eventually increase the contact resistance. This formulation also will not harm many plastics or rubber compounds as well as tarnish platings like tin, silver, or copper.

While the base grease is an insulator by itself (i.e. if sandwiched between two conductive plates), it is not 'permanent' enough to get in the way of contact mating surfaces with high mechanical contact forces and small surface areas - such as pin/socket contacts, knife contacts, blade contacts, setscrew contact, etc.).

While you would use Dielectric Grease on relay pin contacts, you would not use it on the actual relay contact surfaces (due to potential arcing or large contact surfaces with low contact pressure).

I hope that clarifies my statement a bit more."

[spudman]

Thanks again for your help with troubleshooting things Danny. We just about have the carb tuning finished now too. A bit rich on the first part of throttle opening, so I'm going to order a smaller pilot jet and hopefully that should do the trick

[viclioce]

I think I posted this pic on the wrong thread and meant it for you. Here's a photo of the repair job Danny did to the insulators on the stator with the grey RTV cement. Thought you would like to see one! ; D Victor

[spudman]

Thanks Victor. I followed Danny's instructions for this repair to the letter and mine turned out very nice as well. Getting everything clean and grease-free with the CRC electrical contact cleaner (aerosol) was important. Then I used the recommended Permatex Ultra RTV Grey sealant to hold my broken-off insulator pieces in place. After they had dried somewhat, I "filled in" the areas on both sides of the insulators and all was good. Danny certainly knows his stuff!