Oil viscosity and shifter housing grease type

[spudman]

I know...I know...it would be with great risk that I might ask a question about the "best" or most recommended chemicals to use in my bike. I'm also a member of a few other vehicle forums after all...and I know how that could end up!
BUT....I do have a serious question. If Hodaka recommended SAE30 oil for the crankcase of my model 99 Road Toad, why do many members here recommend the Bel Ray 80W Gear Saver for the same application? I understand the concept of major advances in lubrication technology over 40+ years, but I can't get the notion out of my head (possibly an incorrect one!) that "viscosity is viscosity" and that 80W is way thicker than 30 and thus will not "flow" to all the internal parts like it should. Am I way off base here? Maybe it's just the reminder that I have to change the oil in my Tundra next month and it requires 0W20 that is causing my confusion!

Secondly, can anyone recommend a decent grease for repacking the shifter assembly? I had to clean it all up for painting and I'd like to now lube it with the correct grease. From what I could find in a few threads here, a good water-resistant grease is all that is called for and as for the amount...pretty much all I've seen is that one should NOT pack the entire housing to the top.
As always...thanks for your help guys!

LATE BREAKING ADDENDUM! Well...I cleared up my own confusion about my question regarding the Bel Ray Gear Saver! In Googling that phrase to make sure I was quoting the name of the product correctly, I came upon this info from Bel Ray's website which might be helpful to other members here who may have the same question that I did:

http://www.belray.com/bel-ray-engine-oi ... -explained

[Bullfrog]

I don't think that a "NASA style" best practice has been established regarding grease type and level for packing the shifter case. (ie, opinions may vary) But here are some thoughts on the topic from my own experience.

1. ANY type of grease is wayeeee better than no grease in terms of "floating" intruding grunge above the "workings" of the shifter mechanism.
2. Water resistant marine grease seems to make sense. (I use grease marketed for re-packing boat trailer wheel bearings.)
3. I pack in grease to just below the hole in the inner cover (formed/stamped steel plate) which matches with the countershaft sprocket.
4. When packing in the grease, work to eliminate large bubbles (volumes with no grease), and try to get full "surroundment" of the shifter arm. I have a couple of artist's pallet knives which I use for the job. Pallet knives are sort of like the flexible blade spatulas used for spreading frosting on a cake - just smaller and with more choices for size and shape. The can be found at large craft stores.
5. After doing the grease pack, a full clean out is a messy, messy thing. However, during regular maintenance about all that is needed is to skim the grunge off the top of the grease . . . and perhaps replace any grease lost in the skimming process. So the need for a full clean out just isn't needed all that often.
Ed

[spudman]

Thanks Ed! I had actually purchased some marine boat trailer grease that I used when I repacked the wheel bearings, so this should work great then. I think if I had a better idea of just exactly how all those components in the shifter case interact with each other, I'd have an even better idea of where to "position" the grease (although your description is very helpful indeed!). I understand it for the most part, but I'm having trouble understanding just how parts 38 and 43 (in the model 99 schematic "A") work. I know part 43...the foot change ratchet plunger...is held in place against part 38...the foot change shaft ratchet by a small spring that sits beneath one of the screw-in grease nipples. What I don't get though is that there are so many more "notches" on the foot change shaft ratchet than there are "positions" in this transmission. I know part 29...the shifter sliding pin...has to be put back in place on the control shaft of the transmission when reassembling the shifter case to the bike, but I can't for the life of me figure out where exactly that part 43 needs to be in relation to part 38. Guess I'm a bit off topic here, but thanks for the help & advice with packing the case!

[Bullfrog]

Spudman! A student earnestly working to understand how the shift mechanism works! I love it! (you are getting close to understanding)

part 38 (foot change shaft ratchet) - it has gobbies of notches because it has TWO separate sets of notches, each set of notches works for different functions to address the need for 6 position indexing (5 speeds plus neutral).

- there is a set of notches for the foot change shaft key (part 35) to engage in order to move the ratchet (part #38) when you move the shift lever with your foot. Since #38 "indexes" to 6 different positons, there are several "saw tooth" shaped notches to enable the "key" to move the "ratchet" as needed. (I'm not going to delve into how many "saw tooth" notches there are and how each works. There are several - and they work.)

- There is another set of notches located on/near the slotted bump (technical description) on the ratchet(part #38). The notch located in the slot thru the bump (more technical language) is the "index notch" for 5th gear. Count back from that notch and you will find 4th, 3rd, 2nd, the little bitty notch for neutral and the odd looking notch for 1st. The plunger (#43) registers in these notches to "index" the mechanism to the proper location for each gear (and neutral).

Note that the plunger needs to be removed from its bore when the foot change shaft/ratchet/ratchet spring sub-assembly is being inserted in the case during re-assembly.

Hope that helps.
Ed
PS: Snick your shifts. (NO stomp and hold. No. Negatory!) Snick. Yes.

[spudman]

Bullfrog...you're a tutoring genius! I'm sitting here in front of the computer holding the shifter case and it pretty much all makes sense to me now. When part 38 is sitting such that the small "nub" at the top of it is making contact with the neutral light switch, part 43 (the small plunger) is lined up directly with the "little bitty" notch, as you called it. I guess the only other question I have is...what is the best way to "index" everything when I bolt the shifter case back onto the bike? It's easy to find neutral (or any other gear) by pulling out or pushing in on the control shaft protruding from the engine. I know having the small "observation cover" off the shifter case will certainly help, but I was just wondering if there was a "preferred" position (gear) to have the control shaft in when I bolt the case back on. Thanks in advance!

[Bullfrog]

I kind of like to put the control shaft in neutral by pushing or pulling on the control shaft as needed (easy to find neutral with the rear tire off the ground . . . and ALL - repeat ALL shifting should take place with the rear tire rotating)
. . . then put the shifter case in neutral and install it.

It is usually easy to re-install the case and engage the control shaft spool with the sliding pin. Sometimes he foot peg bar gets in the way, but usually some creative rotating of the case while moving "in" will get you past the tight spot.

Ed

[spudman]

Great. Thanks again for the detailed explanation and for the reinstallation tips!

[viclioce]

Make sure you have the small cover off the shifter case BEFORE mounting the shifter case to the tranny. That way you can line things up visually. And I'm with Ed. Pull the tranny into neutral before attaching the shifter case, then you have some "wiggle room" to engage the shifter with the spool. ; D Victor