Un-charted serial number -- 1970 Hodaka Ace 100 (?)

[HodakaBeachside]

I have a very good condition Hodaka Ace 100 and I went to research the frame and engine numbers.

The frame number is: A 4346x
The engine number is: P 4342x

I cannot find this frame and engine number in the range of the starting and ending numbers on the StrictlyHodaka model identification page at http://www.strictlyhodaka.com/v/vspfile ... hesnut.jpg.

There are two "Original Data Row" rows numbered "7" and "8" that are *close* but no cigar.

Anyone know if the chart is wrong (I doubt it) or can shed light on why my frame and engine numbers are not in the ranges of frame and engine numbers on rows 7 and 8 there?

There is a big gap between the ending frame number of row 7 (42912) and the beginning frame number (44213) on row 8 -- and that gap is at least accounted for in the "Number Anomaly" column -- it shows a 'number anomaly' of 1300 frame numbers for "Original Data Row" 7.

What does "Number Anomaly" imply in this chart?


Does anyone know what model of bike I've got here?

[Zyx]

The chart is wrong.

[Zyx]

Yours in an Ace 100B. I also have one just a few months newer that is not on the chart, but used to be. The chart has gone through several revisions, the most recent of which was attendant to the publication of a book on the history of the Hodaka. In the making of this book and its chart, a great deal of data was reviewed and a decision was made to make the chart include data that it didn't used to have. Before this revision, the chart simply stated the starting number for each frame and engine sequence for year and model of bike. As posted, prior to the book revision, that chart was accurate in that it did not mistate numeric sequences. By adding data on ending numbers and "anomolies" the chart became flawed, and so far no one has really figured out exactly why. I believe the errors now contained are an unintended consequence of attempting to have the chart express things it either could not for lack of correct data, or need not have done because the data underlying the chart must necessarily be incomplete in some way. The "anomaly" thing is a term of art expressing discontinuity in numeric sequence that has no immediate explanation.

Part of the confusion arises from the fact that production by model started and stopped repeatedly. Apparently, Hodaka would produce one model at a time, making around 600 units at a time, but did not produce two models simultaneously. Nor did Hodaka want to reuse numbers found in one model while producing another, so that you would never find for example an Ace 100 that had the same frame or engine number as a Super Rat of the same vintage (disregarding the prefix letter). Also, Hodaka was producing replacement engines, again with different prefixes but non-repetitive numbers, at various time throughout production. This may in part be the cause of some of the anomalies.

At any rate, there are at least two bikes that have been shown to fall outside the chart as it is now written: Ace 100B's in the 1970 to early 1971 range, and Super Rats of about the same time. I haven't heard reports of errors in other models or years, but it is clear that there is a sequence of frame numbers for 100B and Super Rat that are not reported in the chart.

My suggestion for what it is worth, is to abandon the newer version of the chart and revert to the older version that states start numbers but not end numbers or sequential anomalies. As far as I know, the older chart was completely accurate as far as its stated data went. That it was not completely inclusive of all known data is, from my view, neither here nor there to the average owner. Minutia may be fascinating in its own way, but here it has caused inaccuracy and confusion that is now hard to delineate. Many of the bikes that fall between the cracks are gone, or have at least gone unremarked. But, within the past year or so, there have now been three such errors found: yours, mine, and one other that I remember. There could be others. I don't know that any request has been made for all extant members to check their numbers against the chart to identify the extent of the error, and really, it doesn't much matter.

The data plate on your frame can be relied on for month and year, and for series and sequence of the machine. The engine number may or may not have started out in that frame because records do not appear to relate so closely that we can say that a certain frame number would have had a certain motor in it, but the series prefix and number sequence will fall with the range, and there may well have been a correlation between frame number and engine number. Whether such records were kept, I don't know.

Bottom line is that there is nothing wrong with the numbers on your bike. If the data plate says it was made in a certain month and year, and the number matches that stamped otherwise on the frame, the data plate is correct. Prefix "A" is the Ace 90 or Ace 100, depending on sequence number, and the P engine is an Ace 100. In your case, A4346X is a 1970 Ace 100B, and engine number P4342X is correct for an Ace 100 of the same vintage, likely the original motor.

[HodakaBeachside]

Fantastic -- quite comprehensive and solved my riddle. My bike does have a plate at the frontmost part of the frame's gooseneck, it says May 1970, and it looks like the original plate, it's black in color and riveted on and looks aged like the rest of the machine. I very much thank you for your thoroughness and for writing that. I'm stoked.

[RHall1972]

I, too, have an "uncharted" ACE 100. Frame: A-438xx ; Engine: P-437xx, dated June 1970. These were originally referred to as ACE-100-A's, I believe, but if memory serves, the Hodaka History book asserts there actually was no such model -- i.e., that these were in fact simply early 100-B's.

[taber hodaka]

As the local hodaka dealer in Kalispell Montana I purchased every new model when they became available. I bought 100A's sold 100 A's my receipt book shows I sold 100A's. Also hodaka published a interchange book that covers the ace 100A.

[HodakaBeachside]

As the local hodaka dealer in Kalispell Montana I purchased every new model when they became available. I bought 100A's sold 100 A's my receipt book shows I sold 100A's. Also hodaka published a interchange book that covers the ace 100A.

Question for you, and by the way 'Taber' is my Dad's side of the family, from the midwest, not so common a spelling here in the U.S., anyways, what if any differences were there between the 100A and 100B models that you're aware of?

Also, I need some touch-up orange paint for spots on my frame, can someone advise on a source for that?

I'm digging the community here, these were popular bikes when I was a kid, sure the heck wish Pabatco was still around, we need U.S. manufacturers.

[Zyx]

Whether or not there was a model A, that is not the genesis of the gap in the record. Mine is not on the chart, and it is a model B. I have all the original documents including bill of sale and warranty card, all marked as a B.

I have no idea why the chart now shows a gap. It did not used to do so, and also used to have engine number ranges to go with the frame numbers, which it now does not. Haven't heard why engine numbers were dropped from the chart but suspect no one could make sense of the sequences. Yet, the start numbers seemed to be right. Without the records it would be anyone's guess what went wrong.

[Dale]

There are other posts here that discuss the color of the Ace's. You might try the search feature to locate some of them. I believe that the color is considered "early red". Paul has the "early red" color offered with or without a sprayer. It works great, but you might not be able to match the color for touch ups if the bike has faded as they typically do after this many years. You can compare the paint from either inside the headlamp bucket or from under the gas tank to the rest of the frame to see the difference.

[RichardMott]

"Question for you, and by the way 'Taber' is my Dad's side of the family, from the midwest, not so common a spelling here in the U.S., anyways, what if any differences were there between the 100A and 100B models that you're aware of? "

The differences between the a, B and B+ have been discussed on this forum several times. From what I remember they seem to be the following.

1. The B+ has a resettable trip odometer.
2. The B+ has a cushioned rear sprocket hub.
3 The B has a High front fender.
4. I think there could be some 3rd gear ratio differences also on the B+.

Paul, Ed and others could clarify my statements.

[Bullfrog]

We are making notes on the "missing" serial numbers of bikes which actually exist, for a future review of the chart.
Ed

[Zyx]

Rick, your photo of the "A" is a "B" exactly as mine came. The difference in fenders between B and B+ was that B was tight to the tire. The B+ had the high fender. The B and B+ had 19" front wheel, the Ace100 a 17" wheel.

If there was an A that preceded the B I would think it was more likely the "Ace 100" made from 1967 to 1969. It was the first Ace 100 to wear the "A" frame designation. But in the schematics both here on Paul's site and on the Hodaka Parts site there is no "A" model listed.

The Ace 100 had high bars without crossbar, a large headlight pot, and a straight chrome muffler. The B had slightly lower bars I think, a cross bar on the bars, a smaller headlight bucket than previously, and an expansion chamber exhaust with silencer and spark arrestor.

The B model is also two inches longer in wheelbase than the Ace 100.