250ED lighting circuit

[Hosk1956]

I have finally got my 250ED on the road and registered today, which has been a bit of a hassle here in South Australia of Australia, I think the inspector didn't like stinking smokey 2 strokes (his words) and was looking for any excuse to not register the Dog, but the Dog won!
I hear tales of the tail and headlights popping at high revs, I have gone thru 2 tail light globes with a few miles of test ride so there may be some truth, I haven't had a chance for a good run to see if they keep popping.
My query is whether anyone has knowledge of any voltage regulating circuit fix to fit to protect the globes, obviously ED's don't have a battery and I don't want to try to fit one somewhere.

Wayne from Oz

[Bullfrog]

This one is pretty easy to resolve. Just install a solid state 6V voltage regulator. The Road Toads, Wombat (03) and 250SL all had one.
Ed

[ossa95d]

Ed, does the solid state 6v regulator work without a rectifier or does the current need to be converted to DC?

[Bullfrog]

The wiring diagrams for all of the previously mentioned models show the voltage regulator connecting directly to an output wire coming out of the magneto - so it seems to me the regulator handles being in an AC circuit just fine.
Ed

[ossa95d]

Thank you. I thought that was what I was seeing but needed to hear it from someone smarter than I am.

[viclioce]

Ivan. If you need/want a 6v voltage regulator, I have a couple spare which came with battery boxes and other purchases. Shoot me your address & I will send you one! Victor

[ossa95d]

Thank you for the kind offer Victor. I have one from a Road Toad here. We are trying to keep a non-Hodaka dirtbike from blowing light bulbs. In my research I found a lot of discussion about regulating a 6 volt system, and in all the discussions the regulators that they were building included rectifying the AC current. I thought it may have been a necessary component. We'll give it a try and see how it works with just the regulator.

[thrownchain]

In my mind you need to change a/c to d/c, then regulate it to power the bulbs. ......not sure how many volts a/c are being produced, and can you regulate a/c with a d/c regulator?

[Bullfrog]

I'm not an electrical engineer, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn once. I don't know the internal workings of either an "old" solid state 6V regulator like the ones mounted on Hodies or a "new" aftermarket (Moose Racing) solid state 12V regulator. But I do have a "new" 12V regulator installed on my old ISDT Qualifier bike which has the Model 94 lighting coils, no battery and no rectifier. Output from the magneto goes directly to the lighting system . . . with one wire from the regulator spliced into the output wire. The other regulator wire connects to ground. Prior to installation of the regulator, I saw AC voltages as high as 30volts. After installation of the regulator, AC voltage never exceeds 12volts. The regulator has been in service for several years.

I suspect the 6V regulators will work in the same way - no rectification required.

Ed

[Dale]

The standard wiring, on the late model Hodakas that included a voltage regulator, have that regulator on the "AC" side of things. No rectification nor battery involved.

Wired this way the regulator is chopping the AC waves at 6 volts. Works like a charm.

[viclioce]

The old style rectifiers worked basically by converting excess current to heat. The voltage regulator sends it back to the stator to release as heat. Victor

[taber hodaka]

Victor that could confuse someone. ---------------- Clarence

[matt glascock]

Rectifiers convert alternating current to direct current. Think of alternating current as a continuous wave of current cycling between positive (forward flowing) and negative (reverse flowing) electrons. Direct current flows in one direction only. A rectifier will only allow current to pass through it in one direction - it will allow the forward flowing electrons through but disallow the reverse flowing phase of the cycle to pass back through. If you "rectify" a situation, you "straighten" it out. In electrophysics then, a rectifier "straightens out" the flow of electricity so that it flows in one direction only thus converting alternating to direct current. A voltage regulator cuts voltage at a predetermined maximal set point according to its design specifications. A rectifier is a form of diode. What I'd like to know is if there is a similar diode built into the Road Toad-style voltage regulator. That way no matter what AC voltage enters, all that comes out the other side is a maximum of 6 volts DC. Incandescent lamps don't care if the current flowing through them is AC or DC - they'll enjoy a maximum 6 volts of either. Just for kicks, I will fiddle around with one of my spare Hodie voltage regulators one of these days to see if it is also a rectifier.

[michael_perrett]

Matt is correct that, the lighting does not care if the voltage is DC or AC. But the voltage regulators are not rectifiers also. The Hodakas came with a selenium rectifiers that change AC to DC. That is the square orange (sometimes green on the Ace 90's) device located in the back of the battery box. They are wired between the mag (alternator) and the battery. A more modern version of the selenium rectifier is the diode. When I do a 6 to 12 volt conversion, I replace the selenium rectifier with a bridge diode that is required for the conversion. This application is used for models with a battery, such as the Toad, 175, 250 etc.
My Combat with lights, no battery, simply uses a Moose 12 volt regulator and 12 lighting.

Mike Perrett

[taber hodaka]

I don't know anything but I am willing to say a selenium rectifier converts AC to DC. Alternating current to direct current, it does not convert AC to 6 volts. Many things use rectifiers including wielders and battery chargers. A inverter changes AC to DC. a diode as stated is kinda a high tech rectifier. A tech person can clarify my errors.--------Clarence

[Hosk1956]

To address my problem I have bought a 24volt dual filament globe (21w/5w), seems to be holding up on a couple of short rides.
Still quite bright at idle, but time will tell if it is a solution.

Wayne from Oz.

[gearyoliver]

Simply put - hopefully.
A voltage regulator limits the output voltage to a preset level.
A rectifier takes an AC input and gives a DC output.
An inverter takes a DC input and gives an AC output.
There are many many various types of regulators, rectifiers and inverters and the above definition doesn't cover every instance. However in the case of the Hodaka electrical system these definitions should suffice.
So.....
Incandescent lights with no battery. Use a 2 wire regulator. This regulator dumps excess voltage to ground. As stated above they are inexpensive and simple to install.

If you need a battery or want to use led lights you need to also change the voltage from AC to DC to charge the battery. Thus the rectifier. A selenium rectifier will allow the flow of electricity in one direction and block it in the reverse direction. I suspect that the original selenium rectifiers are 1/2 wave meaning the reverse polarity electricity is not able to be used and dissipated as heat.
A modern full wave bridge rectifier will convert the reverse polarity half of the AC cycle to a positive value giving a smoother output and more useful energy. If someone goes this route there are many places on the web for detailed information.